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scripsiHusband and I have gone through Timeless these past two weeks and ended yesterday, and I have feels about it. Spoilers are placed below the cut.
I’ve known about the show since it started, but I need to overcome my inter fashion historian and decide to watch shows like this with forgiving goggles. I guess I was in the mood now, and I also learned that Paterson Joseph is in it, who I have had a mild crush on since he played the Marquis de Carabas in Neverwhere. I still think he would be a great Doctor.
See what I mean?
Parts of Timeless I liked a lot. I appreciate that the cast was multi-ethnic, and not all of them straight. The characters were mostly interesting and well-acted. I particularly enjoyed Paterson Joseph's genius who just don’t know how to relate to people, but who still have a lot of emotions. His love and care for Rufus were rather touching. I also developed a crush on Goran Višnjić, who is a new face for me, even though he has done a lot of stuff. I commented to my husband that I thought he is very good looking, and my husband said; “WEll, duh, when have you not liked a man who is tall and dark with a well-developed nose.” How well he knows me…
I repeat, see what I mean?
Overall I found the way the character’s relationships developed through the show nicely done. And I really liked the core cast with the exception of Wyatt. I think I may be rater alone in that dislike, though. I simply don’t find that type of character interesting, and I don’t go for bland pretty boys. I found a lot of his character traits grating.
I thought series 2 was a lot better than 1, and I enjoyed some of the time travels to persons I know little about like Harriet Tubman and Robert Johnson. It’s a show clearly developed for an American audience, so the theme “saving our country” didn’t particularly strike a chord- I would probably be more interested in a time travel show which doesn’t solely focus on the history of USA. But I realise I’m not the viewer this show caters for. What irked me a lot, however, was the rush of going back in time. It was always “quick, we need to travel back NOW; no need to prepare”, when the thing with going back in time is that you would get to the right point regardless of WHEN you start to travel back.
The costumes were actually better than I expected. Mostly the costumer seemed to have a good grasp of the various periods, but the extras generally looked better than the main cast. This is not unusual when it comes to historical shows. You want the audience to relate to the main characters and there is a fear that if they look too alien, people can't relate. Personally, I feel this is to underestimate the audience; if you tune in to watch a show about time-traveling through history you are interested in history, and would probably welcome accuracy. I know it can be argued that people traveling back in time would stand out, but the antagonists of the shows generally get more accurate clothes than the heroes. There were some lovely exceptions, though. I’m sure Lucy’s 1940’s party gown was vintage; it had elaborate and time-consuming beading I don’t think the show would have the budget for making a new one.
Lovely gold beading.
Mostly I succeeded in live and let live when it came to the costumes, with three exceptions. 1. Wyatt’s stubble. I get that it’s there to make his sexily rugged, but really; get a proper shave when you are attending a glamorous 1940’s Hollywood party. Or any other time period, basically. 2. Lucy’s hair. She sports a rather shaggy long hair-look, and her historical hairs are mostly bad to worse. Relatable or not; the other female characters all have classic long hairstyles in the present day, and she could have too. I got terribly distracted by asymmetrical buns in the 1910’s and similar oddities. 3. The lack of corsets! I know the popular opinion is that corsets were terrible instruments of torture and that every woman laced themselves within an inch of their life. The truth is that stays and corsets were integral parts of women’s clothes for 500 years, or so, and their basic function was to provide breast support (there were no bras) and give the body the fashionable silhouette. Speaking as someone who often wears corsets, you don’t really have to lace yourself tightly to get that silhouette, and that is women who lived and worked in them, usually did. The tiny waist was only partly due to the corset; it also relied on the optical illusion of wide hips enhance by paniers, crinolines, and padding.
No stays and hair parted in the middle on Lucy- so not a thing in the 18th century. But she is in good company as Wyatt sports a stubble and hair falling over his forehead.
Decent clothes for the 1910s and she did have an ugly but period-correct hat to begin with. But that bun is asymmetrical...
So, for the things, I really, really didn’t like. And some I liked. Which are also spoilery.
I feel this show could have been a lot better if only a little more care had been put into the writing. It often felt the writers opted for the easy way out, and it was really very easy to predict what would happen next. Lucy’s Mum being Rittenhouse- check. Lucy and Wyatt falling for each other- check. Wyatt’s wife being a Rittenhouse agent- check. And though I know time travels is a paradox, I still think it was treated in a VERY flimsy manner and could have been managed much better with little effort.
I didn’t care much for the whole idea of Rittenhouse; in large part because we never get a good explanation of their motives. There were a lot of hints that never got followed through. I also found the reasons for Flynn’s actions in season 1 poorly developed. Yes, we get a reason, but there was still so much which was left unexplained.
And as I didn’t like the character of Wyatt, I didn’t like the love affair with Lucy. I felt he wasn’t a very pleasant person, and Lucy had to hold herself back because she just was in a much better division than he. And there's nothing sexy with going back to your wife and then have temper tantrums because Lucy enjoys spending time with Flynn. Yes, Flynn was the antagonist throughout the first series, and he killed a lot of people. The thing is, Wyatt kills an awful lot of people too and doesn't seem the least bit bothered by it. It becomes very glaring because when other characters kill someone it’s treated much more realistically as something traumatic and horrible.
So yes, I shipped Lucy with Flynn instead, and not only because I found the actor hot. The character Flynn was IMO a lot more interesting than Wyatt, as well as more intelligent, and he always treated Lucy with respect, even when they were on opposite sides. And I thought Goran Višnjić handled Flynn’s growing attraction to Lucy very well. I feel cheated we never got to Titanic and them kissing each other.
The wrap-up was pretty dismal, apart from getting Rufus back. I think it was in character for Flynn to sacrifice himself, but I felt it was handled very badly with him dead when the first part of the wrap-up was over. The second part was pretty pointless with Emma trying to trap them. I got bored very quickly with endless walking in very cold weather. Especially as it was treated extremely unrealistic with no food, caps or even gloves (despite them dressing for the water before they left). And after being this super powerful organization Rittenhouse was, in the end, ridiculously easy to stop. I’m sure the plan was for a third season with a better wrap-up, but it was still not well done.
Small side-note; in the episode with Ian Fleming the music played a few bars from various Bond-movies from time to time. I liked that. Also, Ian Fleming was played by Sean Maguire.
So the verdict is that I both liked and disliked the show and it annoys me there won’t be more. I wanted more Lucy/Flynn, and I also wanted more interactions between Mason, Rufus, and Jiya. I didn’t read Mason as sexually interested in anything, but he clearly loved Rufus and I liked how he wasn’t jealous of Jiya but instead started to include her. The scene where they mourn Rufus together was really lovely.
I’ve known about the show since it started, but I need to overcome my inter fashion historian and decide to watch shows like this with forgiving goggles. I guess I was in the mood now, and I also learned that Paterson Joseph is in it, who I have had a mild crush on since he played the Marquis de Carabas in Neverwhere. I still think he would be a great Doctor.
See what I mean?
Parts of Timeless I liked a lot. I appreciate that the cast was multi-ethnic, and not all of them straight. The characters were mostly interesting and well-acted. I particularly enjoyed Paterson Joseph's genius who just don’t know how to relate to people, but who still have a lot of emotions. His love and care for Rufus were rather touching. I also developed a crush on Goran Višnjić, who is a new face for me, even though he has done a lot of stuff. I commented to my husband that I thought he is very good looking, and my husband said; “WEll, duh, when have you not liked a man who is tall and dark with a well-developed nose.” How well he knows me…
I repeat, see what I mean?
Overall I found the way the character’s relationships developed through the show nicely done. And I really liked the core cast with the exception of Wyatt. I think I may be rater alone in that dislike, though. I simply don’t find that type of character interesting, and I don’t go for bland pretty boys. I found a lot of his character traits grating.
I thought series 2 was a lot better than 1, and I enjoyed some of the time travels to persons I know little about like Harriet Tubman and Robert Johnson. It’s a show clearly developed for an American audience, so the theme “saving our country” didn’t particularly strike a chord- I would probably be more interested in a time travel show which doesn’t solely focus on the history of USA. But I realise I’m not the viewer this show caters for. What irked me a lot, however, was the rush of going back in time. It was always “quick, we need to travel back NOW; no need to prepare”, when the thing with going back in time is that you would get to the right point regardless of WHEN you start to travel back.
The costumes were actually better than I expected. Mostly the costumer seemed to have a good grasp of the various periods, but the extras generally looked better than the main cast. This is not unusual when it comes to historical shows. You want the audience to relate to the main characters and there is a fear that if they look too alien, people can't relate. Personally, I feel this is to underestimate the audience; if you tune in to watch a show about time-traveling through history you are interested in history, and would probably welcome accuracy. I know it can be argued that people traveling back in time would stand out, but the antagonists of the shows generally get more accurate clothes than the heroes. There were some lovely exceptions, though. I’m sure Lucy’s 1940’s party gown was vintage; it had elaborate and time-consuming beading I don’t think the show would have the budget for making a new one.
Lovely gold beading.
Mostly I succeeded in live and let live when it came to the costumes, with three exceptions. 1. Wyatt’s stubble. I get that it’s there to make his sexily rugged, but really; get a proper shave when you are attending a glamorous 1940’s Hollywood party. Or any other time period, basically. 2. Lucy’s hair. She sports a rather shaggy long hair-look, and her historical hairs are mostly bad to worse. Relatable or not; the other female characters all have classic long hairstyles in the present day, and she could have too. I got terribly distracted by asymmetrical buns in the 1910’s and similar oddities. 3. The lack of corsets! I know the popular opinion is that corsets were terrible instruments of torture and that every woman laced themselves within an inch of their life. The truth is that stays and corsets were integral parts of women’s clothes for 500 years, or so, and their basic function was to provide breast support (there were no bras) and give the body the fashionable silhouette. Speaking as someone who often wears corsets, you don’t really have to lace yourself tightly to get that silhouette, and that is women who lived and worked in them, usually did. The tiny waist was only partly due to the corset; it also relied on the optical illusion of wide hips enhance by paniers, crinolines, and padding.
No stays and hair parted in the middle on Lucy- so not a thing in the 18th century. But she is in good company as Wyatt sports a stubble and hair falling over his forehead.
Decent clothes for the 1910s and she did have an ugly but period-correct hat to begin with. But that bun is asymmetrical...
So, for the things, I really, really didn’t like. And some I liked. Which are also spoilery.
I feel this show could have been a lot better if only a little more care had been put into the writing. It often felt the writers opted for the easy way out, and it was really very easy to predict what would happen next. Lucy’s Mum being Rittenhouse- check. Lucy and Wyatt falling for each other- check. Wyatt’s wife being a Rittenhouse agent- check. And though I know time travels is a paradox, I still think it was treated in a VERY flimsy manner and could have been managed much better with little effort.
I didn’t care much for the whole idea of Rittenhouse; in large part because we never get a good explanation of their motives. There were a lot of hints that never got followed through. I also found the reasons for Flynn’s actions in season 1 poorly developed. Yes, we get a reason, but there was still so much which was left unexplained.
And as I didn’t like the character of Wyatt, I didn’t like the love affair with Lucy. I felt he wasn’t a very pleasant person, and Lucy had to hold herself back because she just was in a much better division than he. And there's nothing sexy with going back to your wife and then have temper tantrums because Lucy enjoys spending time with Flynn. Yes, Flynn was the antagonist throughout the first series, and he killed a lot of people. The thing is, Wyatt kills an awful lot of people too and doesn't seem the least bit bothered by it. It becomes very glaring because when other characters kill someone it’s treated much more realistically as something traumatic and horrible.
So yes, I shipped Lucy with Flynn instead, and not only because I found the actor hot. The character Flynn was IMO a lot more interesting than Wyatt, as well as more intelligent, and he always treated Lucy with respect, even when they were on opposite sides. And I thought Goran Višnjić handled Flynn’s growing attraction to Lucy very well. I feel cheated we never got to Titanic and them kissing each other.
The wrap-up was pretty dismal, apart from getting Rufus back. I think it was in character for Flynn to sacrifice himself, but I felt it was handled very badly with him dead when the first part of the wrap-up was over. The second part was pretty pointless with Emma trying to trap them. I got bored very quickly with endless walking in very cold weather. Especially as it was treated extremely unrealistic with no food, caps or even gloves (despite them dressing for the water before they left). And after being this super powerful organization Rittenhouse was, in the end, ridiculously easy to stop. I’m sure the plan was for a third season with a better wrap-up, but it was still not well done.
Small side-note; in the episode with Ian Fleming the music played a few bars from various Bond-movies from time to time. I liked that. Also, Ian Fleming was played by Sean Maguire.
So the verdict is that I both liked and disliked the show and it annoys me there won’t be more. I wanted more Lucy/Flynn, and I also wanted more interactions between Mason, Rufus, and Jiya. I didn’t read Mason as sexually interested in anything, but he clearly loved Rufus and I liked how he wasn’t jealous of Jiya but instead started to include her. The scene where they mourn Rufus together was really lovely.
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 06:51 pm (UTC)It was really interesting to hear about the costume/hair inaccuracies - thanks!
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 07:00 pm (UTC)Flynn is gorgeous. Loved him in ER and Leverage, and he was good in the noir film The Deep End.
I can't imagine how I have managed to miss him before! I will definitely check out more of his work now!
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 07:26 pm (UTC)I am not a shipper by temperament but there is no way I wanted Lucy and Wyatt to end up together after the way he treated her after Jessica reappeared. That whole story line was ridiculous and predictable, and is the main reason I ended up preferred season one over two. As I am the audience the show was designed to draw in, before the finale, I was sad that we weren't getting more episodes, too. What I loved most about the show were its characters, before the finale trashed them all.
The Smithsonian Institute did episode commentary on Timeless's second season. There are links to it for each episode at
So yes, I shipped Lucy with Flynn instead, and not only because I found the actor hot. The character Flynn was IMO a lot more interesting than Wyatt, as well as more intelligent, and he always treated Lucy with respect, even when they were on opposite sides. And I thought Goran Višnjić handled Flynn’s growing attraction to Lucy very well. I feel cheated we never got to Titanic and them kissing each other.
I have loved Goran Višnjić since he was on ER so I feel a little cheated, too, although I would have needed more than one episode to feel okay about their ending up together. After The X-Files, seven seasons of UST always feels like the right number to me. Anything less and I feel as though they're rushing things...
What irked me a lot, however, was the rush of going back in time. It was always “quick, we need to travel back NOW; no need to prepare”, when the thing with going back in time is that you would get to the right point regardless of WHEN you start to travel back.
Is there a TV show that handled time travel paradoxes well? The urgency came from the understandable fear that they were already too late, that history had already been changed by Flynn in ways that they wouldn't even realize--because it had already happened! At the very beginning, if I'm remembering it right, every time they came back, Lucy would check the historical records and compare them to her memory of what it had happened been before. There were always small changes, but the overall arc of history remained unaltered.
"Rittenhouse" is just standard boilerplate political conspiracy theory--that there has been a secret organization working behind the scenes controlling everyone and everything in American history. Their motive is to maintain power and keep control. I think of the current Republican party as a stand-in for Rittenhouse.
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Date: 2018-12-28 08:05 pm (UTC)Oh yes! Especially as the show had proved, twice, that it was possible to change history with both Jessica and Rufus coming back to life. And as the disappearance of Lucy’s sister was a direct result of time-meddling it ought to have been perfectly possible to achieve. And I found it hard to stomach Lucy basically giving Flynn an all clear to his future actions.
What I loved most about the show were its characters, before the finale trashed them all.
Yes, it was the characters who kept my interest. And yes, the finale was a complete character assassination of almost every character!
The Smithsonian Institute did episode commentary on Timeless's second season.
They were very easy to find. Thank you for the tip!
I have loved Goran Višnjić since he was on ER so I feel a little cheated, too, although I would have needed more than one episode to feel okay about their ending up together.
I will certainly check his work out now. But yes, they would have needed a lot more time before ending up together.
The urgency came from the understandable fear that they were already too late, that history had already been changed by Flynn in ways that they wouldn't even realize--because it had already happened!
Well, yes, but as the antagonists already are in the past, everything they are going to do has already happened in the future. So the timelines should change as soon as they left. I think it would have worked better if timelines changing would have been slower, with overlapping memories to alert the hero's something was changing. Or, which I thought would be a plot point, part of Lucy’s much talked about special inheritance, would be the ability to tell when history changed.
"Rittenhouse" is just standard boilerplate political conspiracy theory--that there has been a secret organization working behind the scenes controlling everyone and everything in American history.
I’ve encountered the theory before, I just felt it could have been handled better. :)
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 07:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 08:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 07:52 pm (UTC)I did not like Wyatt either, not at all and I did not like that he ended up with Lucy! He was not a pleasent person as you say, and I found him too dominating.
Flynn was way more interesting than Wyatt, and he had chemistry with Lucy too which helps the whole romanance story.
The ending disapointed me, I think I would have preferred not to have seen it and instead imagined something better. Of course you can only do so much with so little time, but I think it was rather pointless to do it all if not with the aim to do it well and give the fans and actors a good ending.
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 08:12 pm (UTC)No, especially as the Internet so easily provides answers…
Flynn was way more interesting than Wyatt, and he had chemistry with Lucy too which helps the whole romanance story.
Yes, I thought they had very nice chemistry from the start, and I would have loved to see that being developed instead of Lucy and Wyatt.
I think I would have preferred not to have seen it and instead imagined something better. Of course you can only do so much with so little time,
Me too! And yes, they had little time, but if they had cut all the pointless bits out of part two they would have had more time to make a decent ending…
no subject
Date: 2018-12-28 11:52 pm (UTC)Flynn had wonderful chemistry with Lucy, and I shipped them from the very first episode. They seemed to be fated for each other, and their opening scene together was so beautifully intense and dramatic. I loved the way their relationship developed over the course of two seasons. It was very subtle, and the tender and romantic undertones they eventually expressed for each other were really something special.
I was also pleased to learn that Paterson Joseph was in the series, so that was an additional perk for me. Loved his character, as well of those of Rufus, Jiya, and Denise, and the relationships they had with each other. The series did have excellent diversity of characters, as well as good social messages. Costuming also very nice, although not perfect, as you mentioned.
Rittenhouse, of course, could have been so much more, had the writers really cared to develop it. The potential was definitely there.
The one sour note for me was always Wyatt. I never liked his character, nor his attitude toward women, missions, etc. This continued to irk me all through the series. I also found him very boring - for me, he was always the least interesting part of any episode he appeared in. Needless to say, I very much disliked his relationship with Lucy. He didn't treat Jessica very well either.
Without giving away any spoilers with regards to the much anticipated finale - it had some nice little moments, but mostly I disliked it and found it to very disappointing ( for many reasons, the most obvious being their treatment of Flynn). The second half (for me) was almost unwatchable.
Well, we always have fan fic. I decided to write my own story focusing on Flynn and Lucy, with one completed, and one still in progress (both posted on A03). The second (longer story) is a cross-over fic (Timeless and Versailles).
no subject
Date: 2018-12-29 12:39 am (UTC)Yes, that is exactly what I felt too! I thought it was very telling that Flynn's reaction when he realised Lucy was interested in Wyatt was to step back. While Wyatt's reaction when he thought Lucy was interested in Flynn was to throw a temper tantrum.
I didn't mention Diane in my post, but I really liked her too. I really like dthe friendship she developed with Mason while they waited for the ship to return from missions.
The one sour note for me was always Wyatt. I never liked his character, nor his attitude toward women, missions, etc. This continued to irk me all through the series. I also found him very boring - for me, he was always the least interesting part of any episode he appeared in. Needless to say, I very much disliked his relationship with Lucy. He didn't treat Jessica very well either.
Yes, yes and yes. He was predictable and boring, and yes, not very nice towards Jessica either.
The second half (for me) was almost unwatchable.
And pointless! Everything important happened in the first episode.
I have noticed your crossover, but I wasn't familiar with Timeless then. I'll check it out now. :)
no subject
Date: 2018-12-30 06:45 pm (UTC)I completely 100% agree with you about Wyatt. He was bland, he was whiny, and he was a bad character and a weak actor. He was the "forced" coupling with Lucy because he was the bad guy, for me Lucy and Flynn had incredible chemistry from the get go. Although, I think that is more to do with Višnjić than the writing.
I always felt like the writers started a show and wrote themselves into something, then realized that the actors and the chemistry didn't match what they had wanted. If they had gone back and watched the first few episodes they would have seen the wet blanket chemistry of Lucy/Wyatt and seen the scorching how potential of Flynn/Lucy, but then they did something in the first few episodes that basically nulled that (forgive me, I forget what it was but I remember watching and being like " -_- oh").
Flynn/Lucy fic would be amazing, but I haven't taken that plunge yet -- although it is the top relationship on AO3. So, maybe I will! Ha.
Also -- I loved Rufus and Jiya, both as characters and their relationship. They felt so real and well-timed. It wasn't a rushed relationship and there were problems that they worked through.
Funnily enough, I actually really enjoyed the show -- but Wyatt made me hate it. He brought the show down.
And, with the whole USA history thing, I also agree. I wish (although I don't really because they wouldn't have gotten it right and they didn't have the budget) they could have gone to other parts of history -- medieval England, ancient Rome, China or Russia.
no subject
Date: 2018-12-30 07:14 pm (UTC)The first part was not too bad as it focused on getting Rufus back- even though I felt it dealt with Flynn in a very rushed manner. The second part was basically pointless with a drawn out sequence which got nothing much done only to end very rushed in how they dealt with Rittenhouse, and then another rather drawn-out sequence on how happy everyone was a few years later. There was a lot of character assassination going on.
He was the "forced" coupling with Lucy because he was the bad guy, for me Lucy and Flynn had incredible chemistry from the get go. Although, I think that is more to do with Višnjić than the writing.
Yes, I think I would have liked Wyatt/Lucy better if he had played Wyatt, simply because he and Abigail Spencer had such great chemistry. But I felt Flynn was always more respectful towards Lucy than Wyatt ever was. For example; his response when realising Lucy had feelings for Wyatt was to step back, recognizing it was her choice. Wyatt, on the other hand, threw a temper tantrum when he thought Lucy and slept with Flynn, all while he was back with his wife.
Flynn/Lucy fic would be amazing, but I haven't taken that plunge yet -- although it is the top relationship on AO3. So, maybe I will! Ha.
I haven’t either- yet. :)
And, with the whole USA history thing, I also agree. I wish (although I don't really because they wouldn't have gotten it right and they didn't have the budget) they could have gone to other parts of history -- medieval England, ancient Rome, China or Russia.
Yes, that would have been amazing- if they had had the budget.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-01 01:17 pm (UTC)You're making me want to read it, haha!
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Date: 2018-12-31 01:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-01 03:15 pm (UTC)I always like Paterson Joseph! :D